Katara 'Master' bender

[tenoko]

kudugu said:

I was talking about ABILITIES and KNOWLEDGE, not tools. A waterbending master still needs water (tool) to use his abilities, but even without it he stays a master.
But tenoko was implying that one could only be a master, if one would need to know and accept the ABILITY of bloodbending (not any tool, which would be a human body and the full moon). And that's simply not true.

I stated that a master would need to accept and be able to utilize in it's fullest potential the abilities they posess. I never said a master has to be a bloodbender, only that they should master the abilities they have. The fact of the matter is though, Katara is a bloodbender and needs to learn how to use that skill properly. Read before twisting my words please.

[outlawking]

kudugu said:

outlawking said:

She is not a duck yet. She is still an egg. But lets think of it this way. Let's say she was already walking, quacking, flapping her wings. She still is not a duck. She is a duckling.

But why? Simply because she's too young in your eyes? So it's pointless and unimportant that she already showed the necessary power, skill, knowledge and wisdom of a master and that other masters saw all that in her - it can't be, because it must not be?

But i guess we're reaching a dead end here. If you don't want to accept her as a master, then that's your prerogative. But it won't change the facts given by the show itself.

Talkng to me like I'm a fool won't make your theory any better.
Dose she have the power? Yes. There is not getting around that.
Dose she have the skill? Not yet but she is getting there.
Dose she have the wisdom? Not yet.
The knowlage? Not yet.
The experiance and sesoning? No. Not yet.

[outlawking]

earth192 said:

katara is a master and thats that, so stop arguing outlawking.

Katara is not a master and that's that, so stop arguing greenearth.

[tenoko]

outlawking said:

kudugu said:

But why? Simply because she's too young in your eyes? So it's pointless and unimportant that she already showed the necessary power, skill, knowledge and wisdom of a master and that other masters saw all that in her - it can't be, because it must not be?

But i guess we're reaching a dead end here. If you don't want to accept her as a master, then that's your prerogative. But it won't change the facts given by the show itself.

Talkng to me like I'm a fool won't make your theory any better.
Dose she have the power? Yes. There is not getting around that.
Dose she have the skill? Not yet but she is getting there.
Dose she have the wisdom? Not yet.
The knowlage? Not yet.
The experiance and sesoning? No. Not yet.

Very nice.

[outlawking]

Thank you.

[Zfirebendz]

yeah, i agree, cuz she was WAY out of whack in the beginning of the first season

[outlawking]

Damn right.

[kudugu]

outlawking said:

Talkng to me like I'm a fool won't make your theory any better.
Dose she have the power? Yes. There is not getting around that.
Dose she have the skill? Not yet but she is getting there.
Dose she have the wisdom? Not yet.
The knowlage? Not yet.
The experiance and sesoning? No. Not yet.

It was NOT my intention to talk to you as if you were a fool! I simply expressed my opinion that we most probably won't come to an agreement. And i was trying to say that you may doubt Katara's mastership, but these doubts wouldn't change the fact that within the boundaries of the ATLA universe she's been established and confirmed as a master, no matter what you or i are thinking about that. There is no getting around that.
And i was not pointing out some theories, i was working with the showings of the show.

About the skill: She adapted and used every technique any of the waterbending masters showed, so what brings you to say she's not there yet?

About the wisdom: You mean wisdom of masters like Ozai - drowning the world in chaos and alienating his son for shallow reasons? Or like Long Feng - ignoring an ongoing war to plot a coup for personal gain that is threatened by the very war he's trying to ignore? Or like Pakku - ignoring half the waterbenders of his tribe because of sexistic prejudice? Or like General Fong - trying to force Aang into a highly dangerous mystical state he doesn't know anything about? Or like master Yu - not sensing the genius of his own long year pupil? Or like Hama - choosing revenge and cruelty over the chance to get back to her people to help them? (sarcasm intended)
I could go on and on like this. Whether you like it or not, Katara, young as she may be, already showed more compassion and wisdom than probably any other bending master of this show, except Iroh and Bumi.

About the knowledge: She knows every form of waterbending other waterbenders ever showed and was able to even develope ways of her own.

So whatever you expect from a master in this show, she either demonstarted it already OR there are probably only two or three bending master at all in the whole show that would fit into your definition.

[outlawking]

kudugu said:

outlawking said:

Talkng to me like I'm a fool won't make your theory any better.
Dose she have the power? Yes. There is not getting around that.
Dose she have the skill? Not yet but she is getting there.
Dose she have the wisdom? Not yet.
The knowlage? Not yet.
The experiance and sesoning? No. Not yet.

It was NOT my intention to talk to you as if you were a fool! I simply expressed my opinion that we most probably won't come to an agreement. And i was trying to say that you may doubt Katara's mastership, but these doubts wouldn't change the fact that within the boundaries of the ATLA universe she's been established and confirmed as a master, no matter what you or i are thinking about that. There is no getting around that.
And i was not pointing out some theories, i was working with the showings of the show.

About the skill: She adapted and used every technique any of the waterbending masters showed, so what brings you to say she's not there yet?

About the wisdom: You mean wisdom of masters like Ozai - drowning the world in chaos and alienating his son for shallow reasons? Or like Long Feng - ignoring an ongoing war to plot a coup for personal gain that is threatened by the very war he's trying to ignore? Or like Pakku - ignoring half the waterbenders of his tribe because of sexistic prejudice? Or like General Fong - trying to force Aang into a highly dangerous mystical state he doesn't know anything about? Or like master Yu - not sensing the genius of his own long year pupil? Or like Hama - choosing revenge and cruelty over the chance to get back to her people to help them? (sarcasm intended)
I could go on and on like this. Whether you like it or not, Katara, young as she may be, already showed more compassion and wisdom than probably any other bending master of this show, except Iroh and Bumi.

About the knowledge: She knows every form of waterbending other waterbenders ever showed and was able to even develope ways of her own.

So whatever you expect from a master in this show, she either demonstarted it already OR there are probably only two or three bending master at all in the whole show that would fit into your definition.

Wisdom- I was talking about battle feild wisdom. They all did what they thought was the rght thing to do.
Skill/Knowlage- Every move she has been showed. That dosen't mean she knows enough. She just knows all she has been showned.

[kudugu]

tenoko said:

kudugu said:

I was talking about ABILITIES and KNOWLEDGE, not tools. A waterbending master still needs water (tool) to use his abilities, but even without it he stays a master.
But tenoko was implying that one could only be a master, if one would need to know and accept the ABILITY of bloodbending (not any tool, which would be a human body and the full moon). And that's simply not true.

I stated that a master would need to accept and be able to utilize in it's fullest potential the abilities they posess. I never said a master has to be a bloodbender, only that they should master the abilities they have. The fact of the matter is though, Katara is a bloodbender and needs to learn how to use that skill properly. Read before twisting my words please.

I know exactly what you wrote, i simply extrapolated it. I will explain:
You argument was against Katara's status as a master, because she alledgedly refuses to use her full potential, meaning her bloodbending skill. So even though she knows all the techniques other waterbending masters showed (and then some) and was thus declared a master, you are denying her the status of a master for her alledged unwillingness to use something other master benders doesn't even know.
I thought/think that this makes no sense, because it would mean that person A can become a master when he developes his potential. But when person B, who developes just as far or even further than A, suddenly realizes that there is something she doesn't want to explore, this unfortunate person B would lose her status as a master accordingly, even though she would still be just as good or even better than person A. Makes no sense imo!

However, whatever you said and i interpreted, this particular part of the discussion is rather pointless, because Katara obviously WAS willing to use the bloodbending technique properly when it was necessary, eventhough she doesn't like it.

[kudugu]

outlawking said:

Wisdom- I was talking about battle feild wisdom. They all did what they thought was the rght thing to do.
Skill/Knowlage- Every move she has been showed. That dosen't mean she knows enough. She just knows all she has been showned.

1. They all did what they thought was the right thing to do??? You could justify everything with that. Btw: They all did what they thought was the right thing to do for themselves or for a small group of persons! And they didn't care about the rest!

2. Battle field wisdom??? What ever that's suposed to be, it's now a prerequisite for beeing a bending master? And what about a bending master who is specialised in construction working, mining, healing or entertainment? They all would have knowledge or wisdom the "combat benders" would not have and the other way around, so who could then be called a master at all?

3. YOU say she doesn't know enough! And you're basing that assumtion on what ground exactly? What makes you a more competent specialist for waterbending than Pakku and Hama, two actual waterbending masters, who obviously thought Katara does know enough to be called a master?

4. Katara did learn several techniques and moves without aynone else showing her, pretty much everything she used against Pakku or think about "sweatbending".

5. CERTAINLY Katara doesn't know everything there is to know about waterbending, no one does (not even Wan Chi Tong), but obviously she already knows enough to be a master. CERTAINLY there is still room for improving her healing and combat skills, that'll be always true, but obviously she's already good enough to be a master.

[tenoko]

She used it once, but I believe she should hone that ability. I also blieve she should have a few more experiences to show her skill and not cause any doubt of her 'Master staus'. Hopefully she'll get a chance to work on her healing abilities a little more as well. Then she can called a true master.


And you skewed my words earlier, whether you'll admit it or not, but anyone who reads this (other than you) will see where and how; and I thought you would man up to it, but you continue to ignore that fact. If you honestly don't see how you twisted them, then please, I urge you to re-read, and carefully at that. I hate when other people try to portray me a a negative influence instead of looking at that fact that all I wanted to do was add some logic and reason.

[outlawking]

1- The right thing for themselfs.

2- The knowlage of fighting. There are somethings that you can only learn from fightning.

3- She only knows what they chosed to show them. I think Paku can bloodbend but didn't show it to her because it's 'wrong'. There is no way she could go from amature to master in a few days.

4- She learned some from Aang and the scrool. It was commen sence for sweat bending. It's water.

[ZIE]

idk

[outlawking]

Then don't post.